Man Group hit by fresh £4bn assets fall as AHL struggles

At 147p this was a big tip from Citywire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the end of today the share price will less than 100p - time for someone to get a new day job???

+5% so far this morning. Someone (PAS) hasn't read the Trading Statement....

Besides, anyone who relies on marketing publications for investment advice deserves to lose money. Do your own research.

Hi Anonymous 1 - I made £91k on this so I hope you don't jump to conclusions in your research the way you do to comments on blogs!!

Just shows that cheap can get cheaper and you can't fight the trend. If we have another financial collapse like 2008 then no doubt AHL will be up 20% or so which should help both their AUM and performance fees......but who knows, if the outflows continue I guess it could go down further. Just kind of shows to be that value investing is a dangerous game!

AHL fees - 5-6% per annum PLUS a 25% performance fee. Nice work if you can get it, but it does beg the question of where are the customers yachts.

Hmm that's a bit unfair PCIAM.

AHL charges maybe 2-3% annual management charge and 20-25% performance fee (I guess depending on how much you invest). Unlike a lot of other long-only equity funds, AHL has made good money over a long period of time....they average about 13-14% a year NET of those fees. The reason customers may not have yachts is probably for the same reason most clients of Fidelity's Magellan fund didn't make money on the whole. They bought following a good run of performance (i.e. at the peak) and sold in drawdowns (i.e. at the low) when the logical thing to do is the exact opposite. Most CTA funds like AHL are in a bit of a drawdown right now and it's a proven fact that investing during these periods is a more profitable exercise.....albeit psychologically difficult to do.

I am actually taking this opportunity to buy in to funds like this right now because they tend to do well when the "fat tails" that exist in market distributions present themselves.

Value will out in the end - people who don't buy 'rubbish' however cheap it is forget the story about the Rag and Bone man - and the same for those who buy 'excellent' at ludicrously high prices. I have never owned these - till recently and when I was coerced into them - by the price....

PAS - You missed my point entirely.

It PASsed him by!

My point on fees was that this fund has been extraordinarily good for the managers, and not as good for investors. Not that dissimilar to other hedge funds, and perhaps more of a reflection on investor gullibility and ignorance (greed and fear) than on the morals of the managers.

Still it fails to balance the interests of the various parties.

Yachts for the brave and rubber rings for tailgaters LOL

Don't disagree about fees, etc but that wasn't my point. If people really want to pay 'that' that's their choice (like UTs over ITs I suppose, bonds with big commissions over fee-charged advice and none. I was talking about the shares.

The problem with Man is that they looked cheap at 190p, even cheaper at 145p and now a steal at 100p....who knows, they could go down even further.....it's like trying to catch a falling knife so why bother! AHL alone is reputed to be worth 300p but then there is a lot of competition in the CTA industry now and they could easily keep losing assets to competitors with better performance (Winton etc). Probably will recover in the long term as they're not a bank, they have a lot of fee income and their funds are designed to do well when the proverbial sh** hits the fan in the markets but you may need to be a patient man to hang on

Agreed - that's the markets for you. However, if Pound coins are 80p, they could go to 60p, even 20p but at some point they'll be back to a Pound again (and so on) and as sure as eggs is eggs, waiting till the sentiment changes means they'll be back to the consensus level - One Pound... Sometimes you just have to buy and 'put away', even if you watch carefully of course... relieving someone who was 'keen' to sell to be relieved of his pain.

A very interesting point you you raise Philip but that's where I disagree with you. That is the classic mean reversion bias that exists in the markets and is why most investors are ultimately unsuccessful.....buying on dips and hoping things will return to their intrinsic value. I call it "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller" in that it will work a lot of the time but then......

Your example using a pound coin is very true but with a stock there are so many other factors that affect the price and I could give you so many examples of stocks that SHOULD have been worth twice what they were and still went to 0

You are right too.... and trends stopped yesterday.... That's markets for us - differing opinions and price being sentiment between buyers and sellers at that given point!