Tax and benefits reform: can the coalition succeed?

The coalition as with New Labour, as under Margaret Thatcher, have and are successfully demonising the role of the state, including the welfare state, including the basic State pension.

What is happening now is nothing short of throwing crumbs to the thousands, and we are falling for it.

The powers that be are making the excuse that we are all living longer, , including old age pensioners, and this so-called factit is said is going to be hard for the so-called already hard pressed tax payer

I have a question for all who read this.

As a nation we plough trillions into State coffers that is sent round the world in many and various ways, and all under the name of "Great Britain".

So I ask, why cannot some of this "Gross National Product" be used to fund a decent State pension for everybody, and reduce the age for retirement to 55 or 60 for both men and woman ?

It seems to me that we are all listening to this garbage flowing from the media, so much so that we are all parroting it, and ide ask why ?

Deficit or no deficit, Britain remains a very wealthy, yet we have a rich and poor vdevide created as a matter of policy by Thatcher, and widened by Blair and Brown continuing her policies.

So, where is the common sense here ???????

Exactly what is wrong with the British in retirement getting value for their taxes and NI contributions, by receiving a decent State pension from the government when reaching retirement age ?

Why is the State in Britain being demonised ?

I despair. The change to child benefit doesn't happen for three years, by which time other measures will have dealt with any inequity (although the real inequity is that those who don't need the money receive it today).

As for assertions that 'the average family in this situation is going to lose £1,700' is simply incorrect - when did the average family acquire someone earning more than £44,000?

What they are trying to do is both obvious and correct, so can we please stop wittering on about it.

Ivanhoe - you give the impression of being unaware that the vast sums paid to the state are still not enough to meet the demands made upon it. The money has run out and the UK is living beyond its means as never before. If we are going to have increased state pensions it will mean a further demand on the sums due from the state and the state's income does not provide for this. The only alternative is to hugely increase taxes which would leave us with less to spend and exacerbate the current difficulties we face. The state is the UK is chronically wasteful and I am not willing to pay any more towards it as much of what I do pay seems to be frittered away with very little to show for it.

Ian, Britain gives aid to around 60 countries world wide, maybe more.

The government have an NI "surplus" which stood in 2009 at £44.340 billion., this "surplus" is set to increase.

We also fight foreign wars. Plus we send £50-60 million a day to Europe.

And means testing pensioner for State handouts, is costing excessively more tax payers money that paying pensioners a decent State pension re-linked to national average wages.

Putting it blunty we are all letting ourselves be conned by the politicians and the media into believing what we want to believe since Thatcher decided there was no such thing as community and / or Society, just individuals thinking of number 1.

Lorna Bourke is showing her youthful age. Before 1988 all men and all unmarried women had to complete a full tax return.

Married men were liable for all their wife's tax that had not already collected through PAYE, not just the wife's capital gains. This would have included the wife's self employed earnings and the higher rate tax that became due as a result of adding the two incomes together.

A husband was required to declare all details of his wife's income, not just her capital gains.

All this provided a powerful tax incentive for divorce when both husband and wife were earning. Some divorces were disputed by the Inland Revenue on the grounds that.... (well, you can guess).

Personally, I saw the fairness of separate taxation as a marriage and family issue, not as a gender issue that was exclusive to one but not the other. I don't know what Nigel Lawson was thinking, of course, so wouldn't know if he was responding in the way that LB describes.

The case last week demonstrates the chaotic state and farcical ,ill drawn legislation in Britain to-day. The multi millionaire who arranged his income to qualify for tax credits whilst all his other income was constructed of capital redistribution, and therefore not income. In his divorce settlement his ex wife could not get an increase for child allowance or an increase to maintain her life style which appeared fairly low. If you are on Tax credits you are deemed to be on benefits and cannot be forced to up your divorce payments. Neat isnt it? The more laws there are the more ways around them will be found. The first law of taxation.

corruption

Lorna in the 1980s I had to include my wife's earnings on my tax return which were fees for work done. I then had tax deducted under the PAYE scheme through an adjusted code no. When she neared 60 I then had to pay voluntarily her NI going back years ,otherwise her state pension would have been 15 pence per week. It is relentless the demands of the state to the point where revenue is now seriously haemorraging. 1 in 4 Hedge funds have left. The potential revenue is already down by £500 mil. this year by business and people moving out. If they destroy the business model for UK Banks HSBC and Standard and Chartered could relocate. I would guess that all the big Cos, in Britain are currently examining the position. The Politicians have to be rigously CAREFUL.

//////The money has run out and the UK is living beyond its means as never before//////

Ian, believe what you like, but if this was as you and the government say it is then we should stop spending money around the world like it's going out of fashion.

Please please do not tell me that Britiain is broke, this is utter bull.

UK Ltd has to bring it's spending under control. I'm for supporting the Government, providing it is honest with the people, with no preaching or platitudes.

If we want to sort our spending out, get rid of Trident, stop funding foreign wars, stop upholding third world country's who have billionaire tyrants, stop sending £50 million a day to Europe.

Of course wont wont do this, we will just keep hitting the poor, it's what the Tories have always been best at starting with Thatcher.