Retirement Radio: How the baby boomers stole their children's future

I don't think we had it easy. We worked hard, left a country richer and more compassionate than we found it and look forward rto a reirtement less prosperous than seemed likely a few years ago. Maybe those born in the fifties, sixtie, seventies should try to do the same

I am 63 year of age and still working. I left school at 16 and have been working hard and paying taxes all of those years. During those years I took on a mortgage, raised two sons and studied for a university degree and a post graduate degree. I don't believe I have had it easy, I sought my own opportunities took responsibility for myself and family and have never been a burden on the state, never having claimed anything for myself or my family. To suggest that I had easy as part of the post war boom is an insult.

Regards, Roger.

Same here, Roger, except I'm 69 and working part-time. Agreed, I don't need to work, and probably you don't either, but I've no objection to paying the standard rate PLUS the clawback of my age-related allowance. But we shouldn't worry about being 'insulted': think of the conditions suffered by our parents - deprivation and WW2 - and grandparents - worse deprivation and WW1 !

I left school at 16 to start providing for myself and continued to do so despite exeriencing redundancy 4 times without tucking into the Benefits pot. Unlike Roger above I chose not to take any further education as beyond Maths there were no subjects to interest me.

In 1997, 5 years after buying my first house I was on the verge of bankruptcy and a year later used a £3000+ payout from a road traffic accident to start some risky investments into warrants. 2 years later I risked my profits from the warrants on a deposit for a BTL house followed by 2 more houses the following year.

This was all a huge risk and if house prices hadn't increased then I would have lost the lot due to leverage. After 10 years of leveraged investing in 2007 I pulled out and retired at 49 so maybe a baby boomer but I got the risk and reward thing right after being caught out in the previous 2 recessions.

The generations that follow us will also experience the pain of recessions and credit crunches along the way but like us they will also be able to benefit from the periods of GDP growth as we did. Whether or not they choose to invest and take some risk with their money is up to them, just remember chart history does repeat itself so house prices and shares etc will always be subject to boom & bust.

I was born towards the end of the 50's but from what my Dad told me the 40's and 50's were tough times too just like the next 5 to 10 years are going to be.

As a 63 year old I Totally agree with everything roger brereton says. I sent an e-mail to Mr Willetts expressing my views after he appeared on BBC News 24 Hard Talk with Andrew Neil some months ago speaking on this subject and I never even had the courtesy of a reply. Says it all about politicains really.

C'mon guys: you KNOW our generation has totally screwed our kids and grandkids with debt that they can never pay back!!!!

I am running a blog on it------put "mad lemming" into google.

Or am I the only one who recognises our responsibility-----truly a MAD lemming?

Thank you Jeff I thought I was in a minority of 1!

I don't believe that our pension problems should be resolved by our children and grand children - they need to make and solve their own problems. The current pensioners have created the mess they are in - noone else. We need to adjust the level of taxation paid by pensioners to pay for a minimum state pension for all. The growth of any pensions above that should be adjusted to make the payouts affordable and, finally inheritance tax should be at a level that will pay for the massive "care for the elderly" bill.

stan

ps I should say that my wife and I have been fortunate to be in work all the timeand experienced many of the things the grumpy old gits have been winging on about.

Congratulations to you all, however us youngsters (not that young anymore though) are still working hard while knowing that the goalposts are being pushed further and further away and with an aging population, the future looks grim for many of us.

The last year of life often costs the individual and the state a small fortune, as well as causing much suffering and grief for the individual and their family.

Perhaps we should look at this area too. A difficult one.

The so called ‘baby boom’ didn’t happen over night. Our polities mainly the Conservative party since they have held power the majority of time during the BB period failed completely to recognise and address its effects and longer term social problems.

In fact they killed off most of our manufacturing industry were the real jobs were. How things could have been different if in stead of tax give a way’s under Thatcher /Major they had invested in the modernisation of our manufacturing base by providing positive incentives for the training of more effective business managers. No instead they addressed only one element trade union reform. Incidentally, Labours performance has been no more effective.

I am one of the BB’s, during my working career I have contributed to corporate UK continuously and never claimed dole. Lost a day/week salary to study for a HNC in Electrical Engineering and have never been on strike. My wife and I both working bought up two children and supported them through university without a penny from the state and they are now contributing to corporate UK. The only borrowing we ever made was to purchase our own property

Just how do David Willetts and Steve Bee think the BB’s are to blame for consistently poor governments?

Born 1943. Lived in condemed housing with my Mother and two siblings. Saw my father for the first time that I remember when aged 4. Left school at 14 years and 10 months never worked for anyone other than myself. Bought up 4 children and paid for them to have private education as the local state schools where rubish, thereby saving the state a considerable amount of money to spend on those more needy. Wife died when youngest children 4 and 10, before that looked after her for 2 years myself no state help asked for or recieved. Never claimed benifit of any kind, ever, considered by my Mum to be a sign of shame and therefore me also. After building business up again from scrath and kids not wanting to take the business on (much to hard work for todays generation) sold business at the age of 65 and paid all the capital gains Tax on my efforts. Now 67, investing sensibly and still living by the ethos my Mother installed into us kids, I spend little, live frugally but have enough. I draw my OAP the only ever taken from the state, as I feel that as I put in I have an entitlement to draw. However, so fed up with the moaning and blaming everyone else for their misfortune (if thats what you call it) that I now live abroad. I will no doubt leave my children with (should I live long enough to continue my investments) with 1M each. That will be trashed by the Tax man, to pay for all the hard done by television watching,two car, annual holiday, don't want to work, credit claiming hard done by next generation, that my generation, the "baby boomers" have damaged so badly. Sir, try living through the 40's and 50's on rationing and the washing my Mum had to take in to make ends meet, with gas lamps and candles to get you upstairs into a bed with a straw palias (duvet to you) as a bed cover before you knock my generation.

With respect

NS

Thank you anonymous 2, though not as wealthy as you my kids said they wouldnt get out of bed to earn the wage we worked for.

Yes we had it really easy. Plenty of jobs for life available, education paid for right through university. Even industry paid for further education for those of us who couldn’t make it to university. All we had to do was work, work, work, and of course take on responsibility and accountability.

The youth of today don’t have free education paid through university, there are no jobs for life, and worst of all they don’t have to work, work, work, or take on responsibility and accountability because the state protects them from such things.

Give me the good old working days anytime.

Yes we had it really easy. Plenty of jobs for life available, education paid for right through university. Even industry paid for further education for those of us who couldn’t make it to university. All we had to do was work, work work, and of course take on responsibility and accountability.

The youth of today don’t have free education paid through university, there are no jobs for life, and worst of all they don’t have to work, work, work, or take on responsibility and accountability because the state protects them from such things.

Give me the good old working days anytime.

Lets be clear about this. It is management, especially senior management, the political class and senior establishment that have milked the system to their selfish advantage, while neglecting their paid responsibilities, blaming workers for their failures and especially in the case of Thatcher's reign of Tories, unashamedly flogging the family silver to themselves and leaving the responsibility for the mess to the rest of us while continuing to cream benefits.

At the same time we waste the vast national talent by reserving it for the privileged few, except maybe some business opportunities.

I personally have seen college directors closing courses and departments to make a case for their own early retirements, then re employed, making vast financial mistakes which make any previous diseconomies absolutely trivial. They of course had full access to renumeration committees and appointed trustees etc.

The rest of us have had good will and moral undermined, innovations denied resources and sincere referrals of wrong doings (whistle blowing) to funding bodies turned against us.

Remember when the unions were blamed for everything ? looks like it wasn't the unions after all.

I was reminded last week how new contracts have been imposed variously over the years and how seemingly old contracts can be torn up if it suits. Clearly not the case for the likes of Roger Goodwin and co. The audacity of these people saving their bacon while the ship sinks.

Finally remember it was the banks, largely Tory who cause this not Labour, who would not have been vilified for more rigorous banking regulation, without the credit crisis. Self regulation good ? I think not.

Meanwhile those who do real work now have the prospect of working longer on low wages, road workers, dustmen, nurses, cleaners, honorable work.

Easy to be a solicitor for an extra few years, although I doubt will need the cash.

David Willetts book and its arguments are a classic academic exercise which, as usual in academia there is very little relationship to the actual reality of individual peoples lives.As someone who has spent 35 years teaching in Universities and after retirement teaching 6th formers I can only say during the Blair expansion of HE the demands and standards of teaching and assessment have dropped like a stone. The A level has become more like a multiple choice test with little analysis and essay writing and degree assessment based on modules with numerous exam resits or just based on coursework invariably copied off the internet. The present young generation simply do not know what hard work is like (the odd exception of course) and are generally quite illiterate. It does not suprise me that employers complain. Each generation will reap the rewards of its sense of responsibility, hard work and committment to their own individual lives. Unfortunately it is politicians who create the circumstances that dictate the quality of life for each generation and the David Willetts of this world are all culpable in creating the present divide

I can't believe the false statements that are coming out of the Tories I am an American who came here in 1976, it was hard. The society was riven with class tension, and it quite honestly was not such a pleasant place to live. People worked very hard to buy their houses and start their own businesses. Since then- with Labour money has been put into museums, railway stations renovated - London has become the place people want to live because of the culture not just the money making engines in the city. 200,000 French people can't be wrong.

Further with more police crime has gone down, people who are blind are given skills so they can go to work. Mothers of young children who are not very literate are trained to help in nurseries and thus gain self respect.

All because people have got together to bring out the best in the people of the UK.

Perhaps in Nottinghill they don't know what was really happening in the country.

This new government seems to think that only by trashing all these achievements, including the opening up higher education to the upper working class, lower middle class, people will be impressed. What impresses me is how little imagination these people have about using the talents and historical tradition of this country.

Cameron muttered something about history being past. He clearly knows nothing about the great history and history of science projects going on right now.

in sadness,

Constance Blackwell

Born 1950,Dad dropped dead at work 1962,widowed mother living in a Council house. Left school with O levels at 16. started work and got day release for further education. Got married in 1973, did not have to, we just did in those days. saved a deposit for a house and bought one in 1974, the only dept I have ever had ! Cleared my mortgage at 39. Did not see the point in paying extra for something I could pay off. No live now and pay later for me ,thank you. Saved all my life for that rainy day. contributed into a company pension, still not old enough to draw down on it, its worth bugger all now and will be worthless in 5 years time. They have already started telling me we are heading for hard times, in other words "we aint going to pay you "

Have hard earned savings I have already paid tax on ,being taxed again.

0.5% interest rates after years of artificially low interest boom and bust years courtesy of Blair and Brown.

Yeah we baby boomers have really had it easy.

The things Constance praises cost money. If we do not have it then we should not spend it. But then Americans are used to spending other people's money (huge budget deficit and flogging worthless derivatives !!)

A large number of the people who have milked this country (city types, public service managers etc) are NOT baby boomers, but they and many others of their age do not understand thrift, efficiency and adding value. They are all hype and self praise and have no idea of the value of money. These are the people who have borrowed too much, decided to spend other people's money on cosmetic status symbols and got us into this mess. And the politicians have done nothing to address the public pension time bomb. Of course thise BBs who voted Labour must share some blame for allowing Gordon to spend so much on one million new public employees, and all of the PFI spend on new buildings.

Perhaps the baby boomers have failed by bringing up such a useless breed.

For Baby Boomers read Blair, Prescott and the M.P who started throwing mud while still snuffing at the trough.

Baby boomers. Well I'm one ,I have worked in a freelance capacity all my working life, no sponging on the state when between jobs.Kept my head down.blah blah blah. Nobody recognizes the economic cycle that has seen manufacturing slowly move east. Why don't we build ships, cars, etc. because some one else can do it cheaper. Stop blaming BBs we have been moderately fortunate to live through this period. I have schooled my children privately and paid for their university tuition,provided for my own pension.I have been earning the same money for the last 20 years.......now what exactly am I guilty of ?

Siete leguas

You are guilty of nothing!

That is doing nothing!!!!!!!!!!!

You are all sensible people: we have all lived through the last 13 years of an economy financed by one thing: HOT AIR.

We have stopped making anything (unlike the Germans)

We have sold our famous brand names (unlike the French)

We have lived off the appreciation of property (now going in to reverse)

We have lived off clever accounting tricks (one Great Ponzi scheme)

And we are all bright enough to watch it happen, enjoy the fruits and lumber our grandkids with the bill.

And do NOTHING to stop it!

OK

If you agree with me

Sign here

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/34869/signatures-page2.html

Dear Jeff, it didn't seem like nothing at the time-not voting for Thatcher. spending my life buying British where possible. I didn't understand that G Brown raiding pension funds in 1997 would cause said funds to divert into property to make up the short fall and thereby drive up prices. and as for bundled up derivatives from the USA . I suppose I should have done something about that.

Quite honestly, 75% of the comments on here are either actually boasting about how well they have done, ignoring the fact that not everyone in the community necessarily makes all the right decisions or in the case of one American ex-pat, laughably trashing one section of the community whilst never mentioning that the it is America that above everybody else, epitomises the spend today, let somebody else pay for it tomorrow culture.

Truth is, we do live beyond our means. We make nothing as it might mean that we would have to be competitive, the unions have absolutely no economic sense whatsoever and reflect the greed of our current society and we are fixated about what happened in the past. We, as a nation are frightened to celebrate success in business and economics and constantly worry whether whatever actions we take will upset somebody. Inbred in our politically correct and uncompetitive society is a nasty sneering envy that we put out against nations such as Germany who have a refreshingly different take on the idea of winning. We are so guilt ridden that we needlessly still hand out economic aid to countries such as China who would never consider doing the same for us. America did extend aid to us in the Second World War as they are tireless to remind us and boy, have we been paying for it ever since!

Of course, we would like to win but just can't be bothered most of the time to put in the time and effort. We are fixated by Television manufactured celebrity and these days prefer to worship Wayne Rooney and his ilk rather than people who do things because they care. As a nation, we seem to have some macabre sense of enjoyment watching people who are obviously ill-equipped to be where they are, make a fool of themselves.

No, don't blame the Baby Boomer's, blame our society as a whole. We are all responsible but we do have a say and it is nigh time that the mouse roared and we collectively did something about it instead of whining about our lot and reminiscing about how it was in the "Good Old Days!"

Hallo Fred,

You think we are boasting. Well what we are telling you is, that is how it was. You will never understand it because you have been fed on a diet of have it all now and pay for it later. When I say that I have managed to do OK you didn,t understand the likes of many of us lose out two or three times, have no state benifit to fall back on and come close to the danger of losing our house and being thown out on the street, kids and all because we where self employed. My sincere appologies to, in particular Goistic if I sounded like I was (as you put it) boasting. I most certainly was not. I was making the point that I have always lived within my means and saved and invested anything that was in excess of what I needed. Perhaps it would do you and your generation good (I can tell you are not from mine) to try it and then reap the rewards. Take it from me the old days where most emphatically not the "good old days" they where bloody tough. I am talking about the days of no state benifit. By the way the only person moaning appears to be you.

With respect

NS

It is not so much us having had life easier but surely the change in teenagers mentality and expectations over the last 50 years.

Siete leguas

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have done something about it!

We should all have done something about it!

None of us were that stupid to believe that we (the UK) could spend more money than we actually earnt forever-----or did we!

Did we really not realise the Faustian agreement between New Labour (light touch regulation for tax income based on take now--the kids will pay it back---accounts) would eventually have to be paid.

And we are only at the very beginning of that re-payment.

Jeff

Can someone explain to me what exactly we older people are being accused of?

There really is no problem - the BB are not to blame. Our society is evolving as it must do. Those who work hard will get the benefits those that don't - don't.

Everyone knows, deep down, if you put your nose to the grindstone and get on with it, through thick and thin you'll be ok. I joined the Army in 84 at 16. Spent 22 glorious years fighting for Queen and country. Left as a commissioned Officer with a pension in the bag. Am currently building a financial services business with a young family dependent on me. Long hours, a lot of rejection and sporadic pay. I'll be successful; its just going to take time!! You successful BB can identify with this I'm sure! No difference in attitude just age!

Interesting blog this one.

regards

This item is a regular on Citywire and always generates plenty of comment.

Here is just one of them

http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/do-baby-boomers-feel-guilty-about-shafting-younger-generations/a382947

Jeff Lampert _ You fall into the same trap as so many. The current crisis is not the result of the last 13 years, it is the result of the last 30+ years most of which was not a Labour government.

Stewart Smith - dead right but it wasn't just the trashing of industry.

David Willets should look to his own responsibilty as a member of a government that trashed British industry in the name of party dogma and set in train the finacial de-regulation that ultimately give us the current crisis, without which the pensions issue would be a lot more manageable. It is to the eternal shame of the Labour Party that under Blair and Brown it kowtowed to the finacial sector did nothing to reverse these catastrophic policies.

I forcast that the next generation will lambast the cuirrent one for standing by while the Health Service and State Education are comprhensively dismantled by the free marketeers just as they dismantled finacial regulation. All the talk about value for money and cost cutting in the financial crisis is just a smoke screen.

Why do the recent generations British politicians always seem to want to pick the worst aspects of other countries politics to transplant over here?

Mike

Will not disagree with your comment re last 30 years

I hope the "coalition" recognises this, and does it differently.

So far I have been pleasently surprised.

Jeff

I don't understand all the he ha about borrowing too much, the capitalist system wouldn't work without borrowing.

And there will always be fat cats who want to push it to the limit without regulation after all bush removed the safegaurds put in place by roosvelt because they weren't relevent any more.

Great News we are all living longer- its a beautiful life be thankfull for what you got.

My farther was a station master responsible for 5 remote stations in the East Midlands, to assist him he was provided with a company vehicle, a moped. His pay was poor therefore my mother would go potato picking (8hrs of back breaking work) to help provide a little more. I can never remember going on holiday other than staying a relatives. My first bike was second hand off Grantham market. My farther died in his late fifties so BR gave my mother six months to move out of the company house.

I left school with no formal qualifications but managed to get an apprenticeship. However, I lost a days pay to study for my HNC in electrical engineering which I managed to gain. Met a girl, married and bought a standard working class semi detached house which took us five years to fully furnish because the only money we were willing to borrow was to purchase our property. We bought up two children who both attended university at no time did we qualify for a grant.

This Baby Boomer home owner baby has now retired, living a comfortable life with a modest pension looks back with pride we have never been on the dole, never been on strike and had only minimal day’s sickness. Like their parents our children are both working with families fully contributing to corporate UK.

I can’t tell you the contempt I have towards Steve Bee and old style nasty party member David Willetts. Successive governments have failed to address a problem that was apparent sixty years ago and are now trying to blame those innocently born during the baby boomer period. This is even more disgusting when you realise we have had the benefit of North Sea gas and oil revenues.

My father worked down in a mine. He used to have to pull the coal from the seams with his bare hands. I was born in 1950. He sent us to school in third hand clothes handed down from the pit donkey.

Although we received a free education and were paid through university, I failed the eleven plus. This meant that my father beat me. I don't know why he took the eleven plus too, but he did beat me just for the satisfaction of knownig he did it better.

At that time we were living in a cardboard box. We were having to lick the coal clean that my dad mined with his bare feet (his hands were all broken by then).

My mother had 11 children as they were too poor not to. My 6 brothers and 7 sisters all worked down in the mine and jobs were hard to come by. We had to beg to be allowed to mine shale as the coal was too valuable.

After being sacked from the mine for licking the coal too hard (we were so, so hungry), we set up a business selling risky warrants and derivatives and treated the employees just the same as we had been treated.

After all, we had it hard so why shouldn't they?

We are now all rich beyond our wildest dreams and one of us even owns a car. We have, however, left the country with the largest debt in the history of UK Plc and no obvious means of repaying it. We didn't spend it, though, it was those greedy pit owners selling the coal we worked so hard to lick clean.

I am now retired and how will I afford to pay the council tax and TV licence? After all I have to survive on my pension and that's all I've got. I know people in the private sector might not have had a pay rise for a few years but they should try grafting for a living like me and my 10 brothers and 8 sisters.

We had it hard. They don't know they're born today.

Of course the pit was privately owned, and this illustrates how hard those in the private sector have to work. If it has been publicly owned, then all of the family (including the 8,9,10 sisters would have been employed on generous salaries, extra allowances for licking coal, early retirement options and invalidity benefits on top when the coal mine shut. All paid for from the private sector !!! :-)

Many of the people complaining about the original post are too old to be BBs. BBs were born between 1946 and about 1962-4.

The failings of the BBs are not as individuals, but as an economic group. Yes, the BBs will be leaving a poor legacy for Generation X, Y and beyond. As an entire group, we have consumed more net wealth and created more net debt than we should have.

BTW, those better off people born before 1946 are not BBs, they are SKIers (spending the kids inheritence).

( I am at the younger extreme of the BB age range, not quite Generation X)

I would like to add a perspective. I am 22 years old and have not grown up in the best financial situation. My father taught me a lot about hard-work and the importance of being frugal. I have been blessed with a full ride to a top Public University in the United States. Currently I have taken a semester off from school and I am trying very earnestly to be 100% self-reliant and avoid governmental assistance. I believe that with the current economic situation in the US, government assistance will actually impose itself onto those who would prefer to work hard to get by. I work in a restaurant that is always understaffed and yet with my "full time" minimum wage job I currently work 10 hours a week. I find ways to supplement my income through odd jobs, but with inflated costs and the price of rent I face becoming homeless. I would be an employed, homeless 22 year old if I did not have friends to turn to. My parents say they are broke and barely sustaining themselves (my dad works very hard, is finally getting his bachelor's degree while working full-time and my mother is disabled). My great aunt is very wise with her money but due to a recent double knee-replacement surgery, she cannot really afford to financially assist me. I would not want her to do so anyway; she retired one year ago. I do not know how every single individual from the baby-boomer generation found jobs that got them through. The internet and technology has eliminated many jobs and has made new jobs (that unfortunately require technological experience; such jobs require a related college degree). Corporations and businesses that relocate away from the United States can avoid heavy taxes, but that is not going to help me get a job in my home country. I do not plan to have children due to the economic situation in the United States. Employers generally hire people with degrees (regardless of work-ethic, ability to do the job, etc.--it is hard to get a job with on-the-job training as such an opportunity is unheard of). If you are unemployed then it is harder to get a job than if you currently have a job ("unemployed need not apply"). Since when did our world have to become obsessed with things? I want to provide my basic needs and enjoy time with those I love and care about. If the love of money is the root of all evil, then no wonder women will resort to prostitution for money in times of desperation and crime rates will escalate. When the media says an item is scare people will tend to become stressed and fear what material things they will lose or what necessities they will struggle to maintain for themselves and their loved ones. I hate how money is only paper and numbers. You cannot eat money. You cannot literally build a house out of money. I digress. I want all of you reading my note to take a deep breath, relax, and take a look at what you value, and be able to appreciate what you have. If a hard-working individual temporarily uses some form of government assistance or is close to using it as a last resort and yet they are simply down on their luck with employment, at least help them find a job before judging them. In America today the current system hardly allows for "rags to riches" success anymore. The American Dream is coming to an end in my country right before my eyes. The pyramid on the US dollar makes me think "pyramid scheme." Employers today need to give those without all the experience and qualifications opportunities to show they are just as competent and qualified if not more so to get results in a highly demanding job due to their character, work-ethic, and adaptability (teachable, quick learner, etc.). Please do not think that it is as easier to secure employment today for teenagers, college students, and recent graduates like it was before. I see cracks in America's economic system that won't make things any easier. I don't mean to write any sort of sob story, but I just am trying to share how a young person from a disadvantaged background who diligently tries to maintain financial independence faces homelessness (even if employed--"underemployed") and yet there are people who do not take time to validate the situation and will ignore facts. When you are financially secure it is quite easy to live in a bubble and there is nothing wrong with keeping your focus on those in your personal circle of family and friends. However, keep your heart open to others and prevent yourself from assuming anything about other people. No one knows someone else's situation fully unless that someone tells them. Perhaps one of the hardest things is delaying judgment for some people just as delaying gratification can be for others, etc. Truth is, we all have our difficulties and personal challenges to overcome. Imagine a world with unconditional empathy (no you do not have to give anyone money, but kind words and deeds go a long way--further than spare change any day). This world needs some form of human solidarity that the powers that be cannot break. Like it has been said before, "be the change you want to see in the world."