Morning Line: where is the growth going to come from George?

First things first, we have to live within our means.

I really don't subscribe to CityWire to be regaled with this sort of second-rate, leftist jounalism.

Who knows?

What we do know is that "virtual" growth from fictional government jobs and funded by unjust, misspent & excessive taxation didn't work.

It really does not matter what people are paid for as long as they spend their wages and get the economy going again.

Second rate leftist organisations like the CBI seem to agree with Chris:

http://www.cbi.org.uk/ndbs/press.nsf/0363c1f07c6ca12a8025671c00381cc7/cbffa40c41e99824802577a4005bf3bb?OpenDocument

"Morning Line: where is the growth going to come from George?"

Growth comes from the Private Sector you morons, and grow it will now that the red tape and stupid laws have been stripped away.

It seems quite clear to me that government cuts, necessary though are, could bring slow growth to a standstill and this situation needs rescuing. Suggested solution is to support growth to grow faster. This way you are reducing further addition to the deficit that is likely to come from austerity measures. I give you a quote from the chairman of the US Federal Reserve Mr Bernankle. This quote comes from an article headed “Bernanke flying with deficit hawks” and can be view on the Internet.

“An improving economy should reduce near-term deficits”

It is a basic principle of business finance that expansion of an existing business is restricted through lack of working capital. Private sector claims it is held back by the lack of capital. Help them and they would become an antidote to austerity measure and the above quote confirms it.

Private sector businesses can only grow when they have customers with money to spend. Raising taxes such as VAT, cutting benefits such as Child benefit (even for the rich) and adding to unemployment (even by sacking civil servants) all reduces the number of people with money to spend. There is a difference between saving money by turning down the thermostat and keeping warm by burning the house down. Osborne is an arsonist.

I live on savings. I am not spending anything in the forseeable future.

Fortunately or otherwise we live in a very unequal country so for every poverty stricken individual or family there is one at least comfortably off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

The wealthy should get spending.

The wealthy should get spending?

I think not. That's how they stay wealthy.

I for one won't be spending anything when VAT hits 20%

We are trusting our economy to someone still wet behind the ears, who probably expects nanny/wife to change his nappy when he wets himself!

What experience exactly has this idiot on his CV - born with a silver spoon in his mouth, holidays off some exotic coast on a yacht belonging to someone with a dodgy financial history?

With the cuts in spending (which I am all for, if done with sensitivity, & with collaboration between all parties) which the tories are having wet dreams about, we are going to have more people unemployed, claiming benefits, how is this going to increase the coffers of the treasury?

Yet another idiot who thinks he knows something about how to manage an economy - when was the last time he had to forgo something he wanted because the children needed new shoes?

The coalition government will come a croppa, what with the idiots running the show.

How can we trust the tories, when we know from history that they do not represent the ordinary working person, when we know they are for big business (not your ordinary small folk trying to run their family business) but the fraudsters who brought us to this state of near bankruptcy - they remain his friends, & they remain as corrupt as ever, with the backing of their friends in parliament!!!

I feel we need to concentrate on the financial and fiscal measures under considerations to assess whether they adequately address the issue ie how to improve economic growth side by side with necessary cuts.

I would like to urge fellow bloggers to try to build up a consensus on the current issues including:

Where is the growth is to come from?

Should QE loans be used selectively even in the private sectors?

How soon should QE measures be re-introduced?

I believe the way forward is to get the government to amend their course if you think it is going off the course.

David

I wish a consensus were possible. Unfortunately this government and its adherents are blinded by dogma and unable to accept the possibility that their policies might be either too extreme or misguided. You cannot change the mind of an unreasonable person with logic.

Personally I would try giving cash to angel investor networks and venture capitalists for them to disburse to smaller companies and entrepreneurs. This would be on a profit (or loss) sharing basis with the tax payer. This would be funded by progressive taxation. The wealthy would be able to make this back by becoming investors. The thing about wealthy people is that they can afford more taxes and still invest.

Look to others for ideas.

Germany, Norway.

Skoda sales up 22%. Only 72 years after they sent their Panzers there !!

The latter restricts who it employs and normally on temporary work visas.

George Osborne and most bloggers are pointing to private sectors to provide the growth necessary, but some or most private sectors depend on governemnt contracts to sustain their growth. With these chorus of cut , cut and more cuts, some of these private sectors will also suspend growth and increase unemployment. Yes cuts are necessary to reduce the deficit but within reason and not too fast and stifle the growth or ecenomy in general. David Cameron and George have done a good job in making all ministers, particulalrly the lib-dem ones to answer to every question with the deficit and deviate from the question. Very doubtful if any members of the cabinet or ministers will feel any pain about the cuts. There will be no fairness in any cuts of nay kind.

"Growth comes from the Private Sector you morons, and grow it will now that the red tape and stupid laws have been stripped away."

Exactly, we need to strip away all laws affecting business freedom.

Employment protection laws? If your employer doesn't want you - get lost.

Sale of goods act? Pah! Stupid consumers deserve rubbish goods

Financial Services Compensation Scheme? Why should we need protection from banks - they already employ well paid experts to ensure good investment returns.

The only way out of this mess is to release the free market and the let the competitive pressure not to go bust protect us from the spivs and con-men. Simple.

After reading this lot it seems clear to me that nobody can answer the question. Seems to me that growth will come from Govt (too busy cutting), the consumer (too scared of cuts) or from exports. When QE comes home to roost and inflation clobbers Sterling then exports should pick up. But then there's inflation......

The only way out of this mess is to release the free market and the let the competitive pressure not to go bust protect us from the spivs and con-men. Simple.

Didn't we just try that?

Ah! I get it, of course you are being ironic.. Silly me.

Free market my a**e - free market is what got us into the mess!

We rely too much on the city, & they have shown us exactly how intelligent they are, NOT!

Capitalism has hads it day, unfortunately, we do not have another model all lined up to get us out of this mess, so we go forward, as blinkered as ever, expecting get somehow get out of this mess - we are not going to get economic recovery any time soon - I am not an economist, but this is something anyone with an iota of common sense can work out for themselves.

With the huge cuts in spending to come, joe blogg is going to have less cash as disposable income, ergo, less spending!

Less spending, less profits for business, less VAT collected, less revenue for the treasury - but neither DC nor GO can work this out - how can they? Their world is so far removed from the ordinary person that it beggars belief someone of their ilk can sort out this mess!

@Rose G

Yep, that sounds like a reasonably fair assessment. I recall from my old economics classes that the free market had a nice simple check-and-balance system built-in.

Unfortunately most big-businesses don't want a truly competitive market place - it's all about dominance and ROI - and goodness knows what they would think of a truly free labour market.

For example, wouldn't it be great if employees could just walk out of a job they didn't like and walk into another - a bit like 'entrepreneurs' move their capital around. I have a suspicion employers would demand regulatory protection from such free movement of staff.

There is not a CHANCE that the "private" sector will take up the slack... they never did in the past and Georgie Boy will find out that they won't in the near future. HAve a lok at history. Especially unemployment patterns...

It is sad that we are now being headed by neanderthals whose only aim is to make such drastic cuts that they will be remembered as the butchers of the public services (to think that I thought that nice vince cable had some sense, but no, power is more important than principle).

We will have a double dip recession as public sector workers are laid of in their thousands - where exactly is the money going to come from to pay for redundancies? Where is the money going to come from to pay for more welfare claimants?

The barmy brigade in westminster have no care in the world, they have private means which the rest of the ordinary folk have not.

I hope that my children can understand why I would like to get out as soon as I can - problem is the pound is worth little when compared to what I would imagine it would have been during normal economic stability.

Bring back the soldiers from Afghanistan - that would save a package or two!

Rose

I share your sentiments but would quibble with your description of HMG as Neanderthals. The Neanderthals have been shown by recent archaeology to have cared for their old and sick long after their productive years were over. My preferred term for the coalition is sub-simian, less than apes.

Rose - Your comment "I would like to get out as soon as I can"

Please don't! Your views are sensible and we need thoughtful, intelligent people here - even if the (rich, over-privileged) lunatics are presently running this particular asylum.

We need to come away from the free market, we need to invest, we need to return manufacturing to this country, we need to adopt Eurrope's social and economical culture of fairness and economic equality.

New Labour wasted their 13 years in government by sticking to Thatcher's free market policies, and once again "the old" were forgotten under New Labour, just as they were under Thatcher who was by far the most vindictive and evil Prime Minister Britain ever had.

Rose G

Oct 07, 2010 at 09:16

.Free market my a**e - free market is what got us into the mess!

We rely too much on the city, & they have shown us exactly how intelligent they are, NOT!

Capitalism has hads it day, unfortunately, we do not have another model all lined up to get us out of this mess, so we go forward, as blinkered as ever, expecting get somehow get out of this mess - we are not going to get economic recovery any time soon - I am not an economist, but this is something anyone with an iota of common sense can work out for themselves.

With the huge cuts in spending to come, joe blogg is going to have less cash as disposable income, ergo, less spending!

Less spending, less profits for business, less VAT collected, less revenue for the treasury - but neither DC nor GO can work this out - how can they? Their world is so far removed from the ordinary person that it beggars belief someone of their ilk can sort out this mess!

Brilliant.

Rose - Many punters who comment along the lines "those up in Parliament don't understand us ordinary people" - are speaking from the heart, even if they don't REALLY know anyone actually IN government. Just a feeling that our lords and master ARE out of touch.

Well, I'm thoroughly ashamed to say it but... I have a first cousin who sits in the "upper" house - a Lord, Knight and twenty odd years as an MP. Having also "dealt" with lots of other MPs both in and out of government, and I can safely say the peasants are RIGHT. With FEW exceptions people in charge have NO idea what real folk are like - and if they ever DID at one time, they certainly don't NOW!

Thank you GeorgeHill & the others for your positive responses!

I am, like many of the posters here, hard working, & happy to contribute towards a society that provides for its more vulnerable population.

I have tried to lead by example & think I have succeeded in some part in this aspiration of mine. Both my children are part of the work force, having benefited from being born & living in the UK.

I think it is time to challenge the pups in westminster - compared to the whole lot of them, the ordinary person out there has more experience in balancing the books & making a good job of it, without being paid for it either!

There is a complete lack of trust between the banks & the population, while the politicians have done little or nothing to increase our confidence in the long term, in either saving/investment - its back to stuffing the mattress with your savings - at present, savers may as well do this, because the banks in their wisdom, monetary policy as it is, are paying little interest to savers.

Living in the UK has provided me with a reasonable income, but I do wonder what fate awaits the future generations.

Future generation of young people will not have any aspirations to further their education - who wants to face debts of £30K & more, even before they have started to live their lives?

Every time a politician mentions the word fair, I just want to do a Prescott on them - pity I am not really into violence as a solution to educate thickos!

I am quite fed up with politicians campaigning on one issue & reneging on the issue when they are in power - if we did this in our own lives, we would not only loose family & friends, but would not be in touch with reality, probably needing medical assistance to gain insight into the situation - perhaps we should send in shed loads of ambulances to westminster, with loads of men in white coats shepherding our mps into safe havens with padded cells, for their own safety!

I would happily press the switch for their regular dose of electricity to the brain to recharge the few remaining cells in their empty heads, for no pay or pension.

I am never surprised at the political naivety on some forums from some people writing.

The political "right wing" which we have had since the 80's in Britain care only for one thing, ie, their own kind, the rich.

If you are not rich in Britain today, you never will be by fair means or foul.

Our politicians of all parties in the past, and today, are not dimwits, they are highly educated people, it is the British public who are dimwits.

It seems also among the British public that those with any kind of intellectualism, and/or intelligents, the less they know about politics.

It is the free market at fault here, anf America is the same, we are catching up with them, they have had the free market since the 60's, ours has been in place since the 80's.

Kids today dont stand a chance, means tested benefgits for them, just like their parents and grandparents today.

What angers me for the want of a better word, is that our government continues sending biillions round the world at the stroke of a pen, including looking after royalty, including sending £50 million a day to the EU, and including an NI surplus of £44.340 billion, and this suplus continued to rise.

We are simply not a poor country, and the Deficit could be cut overnight without hitting things at grss roots level, but the Tory right, always hit the poor, because that is their ethos.