Investment Line: Hide! The market is facing a double death cross

Daresay, but what can retail investors do about it; they can't realistically sell all on the basis of speculation - it is extremely costly - especially if the dire thing don't happen.

The commentators in the business love frightening people to death and/or endeavour to manipulate the market for various esoteric purposes. My approach is to buy into reliable good yielding and strategic companies and sit it out; eventually things come straight.

forgot to add though, the occasional BP fracas comes along, mercifully rarely.

I think Jupiter aligns with Neptune soon so sell everyingthing and buy New Star.

Charists are like Astrologers. Bonkers!

Do any chartists make any money other than by luck?

As a seasoned chartist I tend to watch these indicators very closely. I always use the 32 day moving average because that is the number of days holiday I get in a year. The chart shows a small mound developing which I take to be bullshit.

The other indicator is the price of Carling and the FTSE 100. This suggests that if you drink at least 10 pints a day then who gives a f*** anyway!

As far as lagging indicators can be of use in helping people either increase returns or reduce losses, Anonymous 1 gets my vote

This is scarey, I am siting it out if it happens. No need to sell now and lose.

With the market equities difficult to value (historic P/E`s are high and forecast P/E`s are dependent on more naval gazing brokers) the market turns to the mystic glass balls of charting. Suddenly these charting predictions become self-fulfilling as there is nothing else to go on.

I can`t wait to until fundamentals return to market valuation and the chartists are pushed back under the rock they come from.

(PS I`m sure there are some nice chartists out there...)

JohnyCash. If you run any training courses I would like to sign up.

The only sensible predictions are based on facts, not this superstitious tosh wasting the time of people who think it possible to predict the future. How can a 200 day average indicate anything since it relates to a time 100 days out of date? And what is special about 200 days - how about 666 days?

The reason for the recent close correlation between copper and the FTSE is probably that commodity markets have become increasingly influenced by the actions of financial speculators, and not so much by underlying supply and demand.

Get real the only forcast these guys get right.

Is what they forcast to-day does not happen tomorrow.

You would be better to look at your stars in the newspaper and tak no notice

This is tosh

The FTSE is off about 12% now (from 5833). vix well up from 20 flahing red.

Market very choppy. Yes, could easily drop another 15%. Bright side is that companies both in US and UK are reporting demand and the stockmarket sems to like unemployment.

If enough people put their faith in the charts then they will become self fulfilling. I wouldn't sell shares on the back of it but a hedge on IG or similar might take the sting out of some unrealised losses.

That some wizards of the financial community apparently take this nonsense seriously is what worries me - but perhaps it provides useful background to the financial mess created by that community for itself and the world.

the trend is your friend yawn it never ceases to amaze why these nutters are given any coverage. The problem with the market of late has been the unbridled growth in ETF's which has been one of the biggest contributors to volatility. add to this the algorithm black boxes and a bit of leverage and you have the mess the markets are in at present. The difference between chartists and black boxes? Black boxes dont try to convince anyone of their credibity nor do they job backwards

All you have to do- if you are are an influential advisor or ratings agency - to make money is wait until we have some bullish signs in the economy, companies increasing profits, positive trading statements then enter some hefty short positions and then talk the market down. Bit of mumbo-jumbo, few fears that Europe is bust, "overheated" is a good word but "double-dip" is even better. We all know the recession is ending but we still run for cover at the first negative comment - then the doom sayers all jump on the band wagon - the market falls. The short sellers buy back in and laugh all the way to the bank.

We're DOOMED!

We're ALL DOOMED!

When you say we shouldn't sell on the basis of mere speculation, that sounds right. It's more, well, charts, you might want to look at. Er. Like this one.

Well, although I am hanging onto most of my shares, I have sold a couple of insurers who are more affected by changes and a drop of the market. A rare sale as I generally ride out the storms.

That money is sitting on the sidelines to await a drop of 20% + and then buy back more.

The sun is out at the moment, but the clouds of debt are gathering........!

Another failure to post, originally, but better today, more work to be done!

Chars reflect human behviour ! If the 200 day m.a. says sell then lots of professionals will sell and the prices will fall. You ignore such simple self-fulfilling prophecies at your peril. To compare charts to tea leaves is pur stupidity.

Citywire you are running two copies of the same article, though one is clearly dead; a bit confusing don't you think.

Jack Cash. agreed, every device has its uses if you can find a use for it. Fine if you're a practised trader in this case and can trade cheaply and are nimble, but most retail investors ain't. Most I guess can only sing continuously la la la la, I'm not listening

It's summer and the traders left in te offices are in the main a timorous lot. When the adventurous few buy, the majority sell up. Advances in thinning volumes follwoed by volume retreats is a bear market.

But it is misplaced.

Reality is that if pay settlements (especially in public sector)now suffer as private has done, inflation will be low and profits should be OK. Money is cheap. So overall the UK indices at least should advance. advance. Until 2H 2011 - then the s will hit the fan as we'll be mid cycle and still just not hitting the highs that point in the cycle should justify.

So whilst others are selling on highs, I am buying on lows. That is my 2010 strategy ad I use techncial analysis to pick out the lows - well as best as one can, given that I can only check them out once a day at most.

Dont believe everything you read in the press.

Golden Crosses and death crosses are only 'supposed' to be precursers if they are going in the same direction when they cross. One of the averages is heading uo whilst one of them is going down, so its not really a death cross at all

Hi snoekie

Some insurers are undervalued.

The locusts are still circling Brit Insurance

Sounds like time to buy, that is to start a programme of buying.