After Goodwin, should Mervyn King lose his knighthood?

Sorry Merv. the honour has to go .

Goodwin`s pig-headed error was going ahead with the purchase of ABN AMRO after the banking collapse!

In the past "The Wall Street Journal" said it all when they highlighted most of the well known Mervyn King's weaknesses. However since then, the new government knighted him instead of sacking him. He was appointed by Labour and he got promoted by the Conservatives. I believe there is a message in this for all of us to see.

Definitely not . Read Mandelson's book 'The Third Man' page 221 .... 2 weeks after the announcement that the bank was to set interest rates, Gordon Brown stripped the Bank of much of it's regulatory authority , almost bringing about the resignation of Eddie George .

Brown must take responsibility for a good bit of this debacle .

@Nick A - "I believe there is a message in this for all of us to see."

Yes, and the message is clear.

Don't save.

Don't teach your children to save.

Never save money again because savers will always be sacrificed.

Mervyn King KNEW what was coming. If you read his speeches for 2006 - 2008 he KNEW. He did nothing. Useless and dangerous man. Let's see what he thinks of the world he is creating where nobody wants to save any longer. Of course he doesn't care. He has an inflation-linked final salary pension backed up by UK Government TIPS. His wonderful pension will be paid for the whole of his natural life despite the disastrous damage he has done to most ordinary people's pensions (not mine, I sussed the horrible man out soon enough to protect myself).

Yes 100%

Then string up Blair and Brown

I thing Aliistar Datling summed this obtuse jerk up perfectly in his biography when he referred to him as esasperating and uncommunicative. He was six months behind the curve when the financial crisis kicked in and he took that bombastic pompous attitude of "crisis what crisis ? "

Incredible given his track record of being a loser and getting policy wrong time after time he's still in the job.

Darling wanted him removed , what a pity he didn't get his way. Kings persona embodies everything that is resented in Britain

its like school who next for ferulas, who next all those Generals in WW1. Maybe not so many routine honours in future for cleverdick nonentities just doing jobs .Dear old G Brown et al.Where's our gold old chap?.Equitable Life etc

no he shouldnt,what we really want is for this government who took some pushing to get the knighthood of fred sorted is not to get on and take back his pension. there must be ways of doing this.he knew the game was up and resigned just before the final whistle

No he should not go.

Yes he did give warnings but the only thing he was in charge of was inflation before the crisis. There is nothing he could have done to stop the crisis. The funny thing is prior to 1997 he could have done loads. He gave all the warnings. Thing is the FSA and GB did not listen. They were more interested in keeping the party going.

Post crisis is when he was given some power and even more under the coalition. This mess is due to the FSA, GB, greedy mortgage advisors and banks. Maybe he should have resigned in 2006 and made a stand but he would have been called a party pooper. The deflationary problem is the one we face and the BOE has realised this along with the FED and this is good news. It is a pity the ECB realised it months after and raised interest rates too early!

I wish people would understand that the BOE has a very difficult job and it does not help when you have idiots like GB and the FSA in charge before the crisis.

Goodwin should be shot at dawn for buying ABN AMRO after the banking collapse had started, and paying an arm and a leg for it too.

Mervyn King did not decide anything, he is an adviser to ignorant, incompetent, politicians.

"Britain's respected economists" are two a penny

He could exchange his knighthood for a life long retainer from Basildon Bond for all the bloody letters he's had to write to the Chancellor re his failed interest rate policy.

King, Goodwin, Blair and Brown are no more than a microcosm of what has gone wrong with British society in the post WW2 year. We all believed in magic money that if passed around a few times somehow increased in real value without any work being input. We need to learn that we cannot take out long term more than we as a society put in.

It was a great party while it lasted, why blame the hosts.

@nick A

Nick they don't need to worry as the rich have a better time in a depression than ordinary people .

Bertie Wooster etc in the 1920,s

King presides over a Bank which has not a fraction (or shred) of the immense but informal authority it possessed in the days of Norman or Cobbold. Then, the raising of the Governor's eyebrows was usually enough to curb bad behaviour by any financial institution. A whisper that it was frowned upon by the Old Lady could sink it.

Then came Barber and 'Competition and Credit Control', followed by Big Bang: the insistence that 'financial services', a 'knowledge economy' and 'invisible earnings' were where it was at for economic growth, and that the shysters,speculators and smart-suited spivs must be given freer rein. Henceforth they would be supervised sympathetically by new, inexperienced quangoites and allowed to do anything that was not written down as forbidden.

Not only the British public has been repeatedly swindled as a result. Britain has acquired a rather slack regime for controlling the economy at any but the macro level of money quantity-- and what have turned out to be distinctly malleable and ignorable inflation targets. Labour used to rail against 'sado-monetarism' in the 1970s, but under Blair and Brown the Bank was reduced to little more than a regulator of fiat money and printer of banknotes.

We still wallow in the fantasy that a post-imperial nation can for ever remain the global leader in aspects of trade finance and capital investment that had been mere adjuncts of merchant venturing and colonisation in our heroic days. The UK unluckily possesses a geographically accidental centrality which suckers us into thinking that Britain will always be the entrepot of the planet. So we go on slighting proper engineers and cosseting financial engineers.

King is not specially to blame for a crisis that largely originated in the USA; as long as the fantasy of a 'special relationship' keeps us shackled to that ailing monster, we will have to dance to its tune. As long as America dwells in a dream of consumerist wealth founded on credit, and on the dollar's eternal retention of reserve-currency status, it will influence British policies that way and drag us down with it.

There is nothing unique or essential about the Anglo-American way of running a capitalist economy. Other countries are faring far better with less emphasis on trafficking in money-- the oil to make wheels go round-- and more on the machinery itself. The incredible growth of derivative trading in an age when share prices have stood still or worse for a dozen years testifies to the decadent fatuity of 'sophisticated' markets in NYC and London.

The politicians who want to 'punch above our weight' by keeping us as the world's usurer and chief casino operator-- whatever it costs taxpayers-- are far more guilty than Mervyn GBE. But when did any politician fail to be rewarded at the end of his career with a gong, no matter how badly he did? And when did the later emergence of disastrous consequences from his decisions cause such gongs to be retracted? They are ex-officio. Therefore, how many capitalist functionaries can politicians penalise without looking even worse hypocrites than we already know them to be?

YES absolutely. Pernicous, arrogant, incompetent, disingenuous and biased.

It beats me how many of you can lay the blame at the doors of the Bank of England and King . If Brown called off the dogs as it were, he was ordering the bank to lay off so that he could micro manage.

There's only so much one can do under a Chancellor or PM who emasculates one's authority .

Hopefully King has a less meddlesome Chancellor in George Osborne. Time will tell .

Brown as Chancellor of the Exchequer and then PM and King as Governor of the BoE where at the wheel and helm of the good ship Britannia as she sailed from the relative calm of the early noughties to the raging economic climate of the end of the decade. In the intervening years they released all forms of fiscal control, took their eyes of the horizon and fiscal radar and sailed us totally unprepared into the current seemingly endless economic turmoil. They should both bear full responsibility for their actions and be stripped of any outstanding reward or title bestowed upon them for their part in the debacle.

The captain and relevant members of crew of the Costa Concordia will face trial and punishment for their recent reckless actions.......

What a nasty vindictive lot we seem to be turning into!

The 'buck' stops with Gordon Brown and his cohorts, many of whom are still around today and yet engaged in their attempt to clamber up the greasy pole.

If it is vengeance you seek, forget Goodwin, King and the rest, go for Brown directly and afterwards his parliamentary inner circle.

It will be interesting to read the first 'un-authorised' biography on Brown, though for the full story to be told, warts and all, we may have to wait until he is dead.

I suppose it would sound uncharitable if I suggested Brown and Blair were traitors and it's past time they swung on a public gallows?

King clearly got his knighthood for incompetence/spinelessness.

As such he has to keep it, but should be stripped, feathered and tarred and sent into the wilderness sans pension.

I agree with stormdog and derek, Brown with the a**el***er sidekicks (advisor of long standing and missus) and Bliar etc are the ones who should be sent on holiday at HM pleasure.

The day Blair and Brown were elected for the two top jobs, we came to the conclusion that the first thing that will be attacked would be the UK Private Pension Pot ,which was billions at that time, and even the EU were casting their eyes at it. Secondly Brown's pledge to follow Major's "Prudence would last no longer than a couple of years. I remember with dread and depression listening to the Hubris laden speech in which Brown [pledged to double Public expenditurew in his administration. He believed that the City was an endless gravy train to be milked ,coupled with his "Light Touch" policy which was really a do nothing policy and let them do what they like. He sold 450 tons of gold at $240 a troy ounce ,and bought Euros to swagger around Europe saying he was giving full support for the Euro. He then allowed his socialist departments to squander resources unknown to man plus Blair engaged in Warefare of unknown cost with a grossly inefficient Min of Defence. I could go on but I think a case could be made for Economic Treason here. King unfortunately was and is a sticking plaster Guvernor reacting, believing that monetary management is the answer when the real answer to stimulate the economy is to make it worthwhile to go into business with no endless busibodies around you. Taxation, minimum wages, interference at every day to day level from local authorities to Quangos. It has stifled initiative and the desire to succeed. Now we have City bashing from the unproductive politicians.

they are all members of secret societies, what chance have we mortals,that includes the privalaged royal families,there needs to be some serious sharing policies

Yes Mr. King and his policy to print cheap money is to blame for the economic mess he has made of this country.

Oh dear what a load of hypocrites you all are.

The excellent tv programmes by Jon Moulton on the selling of mortgages to people who had no possiblity of paying them off. This earned vast commissions for the salesmen who absconded with them to the Gulf States, picking up a pile of bling for the girlfriend and a Farrari in the duty free. The debt was then bundled up into a colateralised loan obligation and sold to any bank that was stupid enough to buy them. This, we were told, was complex nathematics that only a few could understand. Any meercat would have said,"simple".

I have put some of my own interpretation on the programmes and am prepared to stand corrected

Bob the electrician

Can anyone tell me why we give Knighthoods to Folks who work and get well paid

Civil Servents

MP,s

Milatery Personel (Senior Ranks)

all get knighthoods ect ect WHY

There only working class folks who get paid monthy from the public purse so why do we honer them

Is the Gold Plated pension not enough

Im I missing something

Really fed up with all the political and press comment on whose to blame, and surprised that an economist working for a bank doesn't have a better idea of the origins and contributing factors.

Lest we forget, the crisis started in the US property market. For years those responsible for financial regulation have failed to keep up with the traders and transaction architects - capital and risk directives bought in to reduce concentration risks were unwittingly allowed to be stepped around by firms packaging mortgage debt into special purpose vehicles, adding insurance so that the debt of those vehicels would be rated AAA, and then that debt being considered tradeable. Banks loved it as it allowed term credit risk to be transferred into tradeable market risk which has a much smaller capital hit, and all was set for the US property bubble to burst.

The failure rests with the regulators and politicians - the latter making the above ten time worse by allowing massive consolidation in the Banking industry ... fewer banks means the market risk is going to be more concentrated and the ripple from one going bust much more severe. For example, all of Lloyds current problems are because UK politicians literally forced them to recsue HBOS!

Someone needs to be regulating for the macro view but too often those who don't understand get involved in regulation beacuse its poitically expedient and just end up making things worse.

Come on guys - would you really blame your banker if your wife had cleaned out your bank account and sold all your pension investments.

Simon Hopper hits it spot on! The blame for the failure does rest with regulators who did not regulate, particularly with the FCA. If my memory serves me right this particular organisation had only two people overseeing Northern Rock up to the time it went bust! In my opinion though,the principal culprit has to be Gordon Brown, (Mr Prudence!). He has to be the principal culprit. He being the Chancellor until he became Prime Minister, he is the one individual who powerfully misguided our entire economy affairs for thirteen years into the financial mess in which we now find ourselves. Sorry,no ! He was of course also egged on by his principal lieutenants Balls and Milliband. Has anyone else noticed that people with the most self confidence are usually those with the least competence? I am an octogenarian and have frequency observed this in the past. To me, Brown, Balls and Milliband certainly fulfull this criteria! Oh! While I am at it, could we begin to persuade the media to begin to use the term 'Thousand Million' instead of 'Billion? I'm pretty certain that many of the general public do not really understand the enormity of what a billion constitutes! It seems not to resonate wth them. This means of course they do not really understand the reason for the loss of jobs, homes, hopes and futures into which these individuals have led us!

To add to what has been said before , maybe some of you remember that in the USA this is second time around .

There had already been a major crisis there caused by the failure of scores of Savings and Loan organisations, caused by imprudent lending, about 20 years ago.

However the spivs responsible for this debacle were probably too inexperienced to have remembered this period, but the more mature guys should have been aware of what had happened.

Give it another 20 years or less and nothing would surprise me if they land us in the mire again .

Definitely had a pivotal role in the crisis.

Should have been the calming hand of sanity and reflection to Brown's ignorant bully but never had a naysay to say.

After allowing the gold to sold, failing to foresee the run on Northern Rock and being implicated in the failure to divulge the full facts on the sale of HBOS (months of secret loans), I also firmly believe that interest rates were knowingly kept low to facilitate Brown's move from no. 11 to no.10.

His failure to be "independent" and protect the economy over personal ambition is his biggest indictment. His knighthood has been a reward for his croneyism rather than for any great service to the country.

@CYnCYR

Talking of Billion or a thousand million I'm not at all sure how many noughts there are in a Trillion.

Mervyn King is reducing government debt by printing money and buying back government debt. Surely that in itself deserves the government recommending him for a knighthood?

The culprits here are Thatcher for the Big Bang and especially Regan for the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act. After that the financial crisis was inevitable. The only question was how long the jugglers could keep all the ever increasing number of balls in the air. The sin of Blair, Brown et al was that like almost all economists, politicians, commentators and bloggers on this site they choose to stick with the neo-con philosophy that the market always knows best. Utter cobblers. The market can't know best when the deals being done are so devious that most of the market doesn't actually understand them or see them for what they are. Plus the market mostly only looks at next week or month, rarely next year and never next decade. Close your eyes and cross your fingers is never a good policy when a crisis is looming. Even I could see a problem with ever increasing levels of debt from 2000 onwards. I think Mervyn's problem was too little power not too much.

@Dislexic Landlord

Yes, you are missing something - it is called "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" which can often be translated as you contribute to the party and the Queen will rember you on her birthday

@derek farman

Each unit is a thousnd times the one before

Easy rule of thumb - add three noughts each step

3 - thousand

6 - million

9 - billion

12 - trillion

15 - we're all truely f*@^£*d

Since Brown and Blair (both Scottish) both messed the economy up - I hope we remember this when and if Alex Salmon gets devolution and we assign the debt pile.

Failed from the outset, sold gold, reserves,(just obeying orders you know!) and salvaging since then and never recovered by his own account. easing here there everywhere with no results. Offered excuses one after another but good on platitudes, no this was not pivotal failier but key.

Let him keep it as reminder of how failures too are rewarded.

Giving knighthoods to public servants is always difficult to understand. They are well paid and with gold plated pensions.

On a similoar but different note, why is Archer still 'Lord' in view of his history?

@ Devils Advocate1 .

I'm probably in the minority , but I wouldn't see any reason to strip Archer of his Lordship .

He didn't steal . He didn't fiddle expenses . He has given much pleasure through his books to countless people .

He did lie under oath , but he would be at the back of the queue if we lined up all the Lords and Ladies who should be dealt with .

I still say Lord Ashcroft should be the next to be stripped of his knighthood, for using his illgotton gains to swing the election in favour of this bunch of incompetant millionaires thus making a mockery of our so called democracy.

What is the word for government of rule by the rich, selected by the rich for the benefit of the rich.

Bob the electrician

Huh ......''The culprits here are Thatcher for the Big Bang and especially Regan for the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act''

Glass-Steagall act was repealed in 1999 near the end of Clintons tenure.

i.e. 10 years after both Reagan and Thatcher had retired.

Banker bashing, and scapegoats like Goodwin will continue to be used in the Frenzy until we get a full published ,in depth enquiry ,as to WHO were the real culprits . In particular the skulduggery surrounding the Lloyds' takeover of the bankcrupt HBOS. Bearing in mind this was rushed through in days without "Due diligence" and without the disclosure to the shareholders in Lloyds that HBOS was already being stopped from going into liquidation by the B of E with secret undisclosed loans of £50 billion which were never disclosed to the shareholders in Lloyds. Was it to prop up the Scottish Institutions who were up to their necks in HBOS? We demand the full story now.

Strip him of his knighthood & I will do the tarring with the brush. These idiots have been let loose because of who they know, not because they have any idea of what their policies will wreak on taxpayers - they are only interested in keeping their own positions, even when it becomes untenable & unpalatable. BoE, (King, FSA (Turner) - all should be facing unemployement, not getting bonuses & specially not getting rewarded by her maj - all it demonstratates is that they are worthless, & have no meaning to all those who work all their lives & face even poorer returns on their savings than ever before.

Wish we were at the end of this year, hoping the Mayan predictions wipe the smiles of all of them - I would be willing to die knowing that these scum bags have had their days too! The world would be a better place without the scum that call themselves politicians, bankers & other such worthy pursuits to swindle us of our hard earned money!